One of our readers, Vivek, has written a guest article series “Why NOT to return to India “. It is very interesting … Vivek has presented some real data with lot of research and reference links….I believe that this is very controversial discussion….Lets not fight over this, but look at the facts and his perspective. In this first article, the focus is on reservations in education system and govt. jobs.
Background:
All the Non-resident Indians (NRIs), please consider below mentioned pitfalls before going back/returning back to India. Don’t get fooled too much by the Indian Growth story. Most of the Return 2 India articles in newspapers are sponsored by real estate companies as NRI’s are their biggest customers.
Education System, Government Jobs – India:
In India complete education system and all Govt. jobs (at state level or central level), promotions in Govt. jobs are based on caste based reservations and not on only pure merit. At central Govt level minimum 50% reservations ( it might further go up in the future) are applicable and at state level it varies based on state. But in a state like Andhra Pradesh which has minimum 83.3% reservations (State of Andhra Pradesh has highest reservations in the world & it is also known as the state that killed merit.)
Reservation Schedule of Andhra Pradesh State , INDIA
* Schedule Castes (A, B, C, D) – 15%
* Schedule Tribes – 6%
* Backward Classes (A, B, C, D) – 25%
* Physically Handicapped (Blind, Deaf & Dumb and OPH) – 3%(1+1+1)
* Ex-Service Men 9APMS only) – 1%
* Women – 33.33%
Total : Minimum 83.33%
If you deduct 83.3% out of 100% remaining 16% is not only for general category candidates or merit category candidates but people from above categories can compete. If a person from reserved category score well then he comes under general category or merit category. Even in reserved categories a person having millions of dollars or who is rich is eligible for reservations. Which in turn takes away the chance of deserving candidates. They don’t exclude creamy lawyer for reservations. Even admissions to Phd or jobs in R&D department is based on reservations, its like killing innovation.
These reservations are applicable in entire education system including PhD and even in Govt. jobs too. The educational seats or Govt. jobs vacant under reserved category are not filled with people from merit category, Govt. leaves them vacant. In India merit is a joke. Merit is discouraged. No scholarships or rather less scholarships are available based on merit. 99.9% scholarships are given by Govt. based on caste. In many states Govt. reimburses 100% of fee of minorities and all reserved categories irrespective of merit. Read: Government of Andhra Pradesh Funding Elections
A student who secured the First Rank in the 2005 Post Graduate Medical Entrance Examination but was refused specialization of his choice. Read these articles :
- PG Medical Students Appeals High Court – The Hindu Newspaper
- PG Medical Admission Verdict Info – The Hindu Newspaper
There are many hidden pit falls for the people who are from open category when it comes to maximum age ( All the Govt jobs) and number of attempts to appear for an examination. For instance, in case of Civil Services IPS, IAS a person from Open category can appear for Civils exam only 4 times, whereas OBC can appear7 times, and SC/ST candidate does not have any restriction on number of times. Generally prescribed age limit for Civils exam is minimum 21 years and maximum of 30 years as on 1 August of the year of Examination. But for OBC its 33, for SC/ST its 35. Age relaxations is applicable to most Govt jobs irrespective state it is. For state level Govt jobs sometimes maximum age eligibility goes to up to 40 or above in few states for reserved categories. Maximum age relaxation also applicable while admitting in to education institutions but depends up on type of institution whether state or central.
Don’t ever dream of getting in to Medicine or Govt job under Open or Merit Category.
Nowadays 25% reservations are applicable in private schools too from LKG to Grade 8. Under right to education act these private schools must admit 25% of the students freely from SC/ST, OBC categories etc. In turn, these private schools charge the expenditure incurred on that 25% of the students on the parents of other students so automatically the fees of other students goes up. Even scholarships at school level mostly are given only to minority students like Muslims etc. Kids’ admissions for free education is also based on caste system ( check page 9, point 4).
The following table reflects the typical caste-based reservation profile:
| SC and SC Converts to Buddhism | 13.0% |
| STs | 7.0% |
| Vimukta Jati | 3.0% |
| Nomadic Tribes (NTI) | 2.5% |
| Nomadic Tribes (NT2) | 3.5% |
| Nomadic Tribes (NT3) | 2.0% |
| OBC | 19.0% |
| TOTAL | 50.0% |
Table Reference: National Council for Indian Education – Reservations
Some articles related to reservations and education in India.
- Minority Scholarships – Gujarat Govt. High Court
- New Universities for Minorities before Elections – Times of India
- Indian Education System – What needs to Change ?
- Reservations in India – Wikipedia
What are your thoughts on education system and reservations?
Living in America and not seeing much of these reservations, what is your view?
Those of you who are yelling that this is existing for 5k+ yrs, 50k+yrs., etc. ->
1. Sage Vedvyas -> SC
2. Sage Valmiki -> ST
3. Mahakavi Kalidas -> ST
4. Guha -> Fisherman, SC
5. God Shiv -> Adi dravida
6. Gods Ram, & Krishna -> OBCs
And to those of you who are justifying this jaathi reservation in this 21st century -> can you jus give a direct answer; yes/no, to the foll. 3 questions ->
1. Will you ever admit your kid in a govt. school where teachers are from reserved category?
2. Will you ever build/construct your house; where-in, the civil engineer/architect is from reserved category who got into civil-engineering with a mere 33% pass mark n passed out of civil-engineering / B.Arch with a mere 33% pass mark?
3. Will you ever go to a govt. hospital if you fall sick? and allow yourself to be treated by a reserved category doctor? [I m talking about real-time doctors, and not about Munnabhai]
Such a crap post ..I came in and saw intro and thought the author is going to compare multiple things and it will help readers like me to great extent. This is just a casteist rant. why should you be in US only to propagate this , you can do it being in India as well. Reservation does not take away Merit system. Reservation is a categorized merit system to empower complete society. India has not yet filled in the Gap between rich and poor. So dont see 5 people around you and decide there are 1000s more who may need help.
BRO we also come from poor families but because we are so called upper class we are denied every facility that is given by government to lower class
Brother, if intent is to fill gap of rich and poor, entire reservation should be on basis of income and not caste. Reservation was meant to be temporary but no one knows when will it end. If it remains for longer period, poor people from open category will be new dalits 20 years down the line and they will have no one listening them.
In educational fees point better to review Delhi Govt Arvind Kejriwal work. I’m not his fan but i his 5years of tenure he had not raised single penny foe education in Private Schools.
Where as 60% of wealth in Inda are owned by 10% upper caste aka general category.
SC ST OBC AND WOMEN POPULATION HOLDS 80% REST 20% BELONGS TO GENERAL CATEGORY.
WOMEN RESERVATION INCLUDES GENERAL CASTE WOMEN IT SELF.
I 100 % agree with the author. I just wanna move out of India and get settled abroad.
Yes ,? it is cast based racism in India.. very bad for our future .. trying migrate us
Can some friend tell me about what is the reservation system in education and employment in America in other words how does it operate there
I think reservation system is good but the moment a person from some reserved category gets job , acheives good profile , is able to develop his/her children in well reputed institutions, he/she shouldn’t be given reservation anymore. He /she no longer deserves reservation now.
When you discourage merit and continue to increase caste based reservations in Education and Govt. jobs, India will be left with deficiency in service, immoral activity, corruption, highhandedness, caste war, communal tension, price rise, below par teachers, professors and educational standards, lower self esteem, dependency on Govt. for all evils afflicting the nation, rise in legal cases, low productivity, rowdyism, intolerence, indiscipline, strikes, bundhs, brainless politicians.
Reservation seems to be a necessary evil but it needs to be tamed. At present the system is immoral and highly discriminatory against general population. Worst aspects are:
1) Irrespective of merit and economic backwardness scholarships are given to SC/ST, minorities. There is almost no or proportionately very few scholarship for either meritorious or economically backward open category students.
2) Many states implement reservation in promotions, so a undeserving junior can become a boss to a senior general category guy. This is a very big injustice.
Mate, it’s just an evil , not necessary at all , it has destroyed the education system, when people start being judged by background regardless of ability, the system is defunct , the economic backward bullshit argument fails here as well , even people in general category are economically backward many times, this is a result of rampant vote bank politics,
Think of a system when one was judged based on his/her background for 5000 year and was disallowed basic human rights let alone economic rights. And it hasn’t stop. Even though there is reservation based on Caste, you can see hundred of cases of Caste based discrimination in many cases in our country.
OK in that case tell me how many % of people of general category r poor????
I’m not a political supporter
I’m just a person from backward class..
Why people r so blind and narrow minded I didn’t get..just find d statistics regarding economy based on caste and u will get ur answer..
And just go to d past…no prince hv given any exam or test to become king it was d traditional gift to him..this is d condition from 5000 yrs our occupation depends on our caste…shudra does not hv any opportunity..opportunity was only for d higher caste..and in this constitution d good change people get opportunity to do all d things regardless of their Cast..
And I think that is somewhere making u pin prick..friend live in reality don’t be so narrow minded check d statistics and then comment…
My only question is that if you have been given reservation once and your family has now become forward then what’s the need to give reservation to that specific person. Give reservation to any other SC or St candidate. Even the data shows that 1% SC st enjoys most of the reservation of 15% which really undermines the need for which it was first introduced. And it really hurts when we see that a general student who has done nothing wrong like untouchability or caste discrimination has to suffer from this evil system just because of historical reasons to which he has no relation to deal with.
PLEASE READ THIS
Then I just want to ask question how many % of SC and ST people are billionaire..compare to the general category..u find that not even 5% of SC ST people are that much rich
Friend reservation system in india running from 5000 yrs but there is just a little bit change(a good change) now which was/is necessary for india to become a developed country..former reservation is also based on caste my friend not on d ability..d occupation is a traditional gift to d sons and daughters..no king had become king on d ability..it was d gift to them..leave it..I will talk about backward people..if u r (shudra) or (achut) u did not get any opportunity in ur life to make it developed…u just imagine u did not get even food u hv to eat dead animals…and this is for 5000 yrs..there is lot to tell but leave it just imagine what will be ur next generation if suffer all these things..imagine what will be ur mentality if u go through these madness..u never thought of becoming rich person develop person bcoz u don’t Hv that right..even u don’t know when ur wife mother or daughter can face a nightmare(RAPE) by other cast people’s..and u can’t do anything to protect them..and what u will teach ur next generation??? Just think man this goes for 5000 yrs approximately 50 generation..50generation my friend..have u heard about genetics??if not I will strongly recomed u to read about it..we eat food 2 times a day right…supposed u r a professional fighter and if someone kept u starv for 30 days and after 30 days keep a food of 30 days in front of u at a time and tell now ur starving is end and eat d all food…and go to fighting club and fight there with ur opponent who r taking proper diet for all d day what will happen u will never win…for that u Hv to eat food not for 2-3 days u hv to eat a proper diet for at least 6 months to become eligible to fight with ur opponent…just like that we hv reservation for 70 yr and it’s not possible to compensate 5000 yrs with this 70 yrs it will take time and we r not demanding 5000 yrs but it will take time for becoming economically equal and this is d proper constitution for india..ya there r some people in SC and ST caste who r developed but there number is tooooo small my friend on d basis of there success u can’t say the reservation system is wrong..and tell just one name of PM who is SC or ST..that reveals d truth man there r still the traditional propogonda is going..shey still some peoples who doesn’t Hv houses…who r still becoming victim of d upper castims d fact is that media don’t flash it because media is also there’s..if ur thinking I’m telling a lie..I also hv proof..make u thinking right man don’t be narrow minded..I think u know about d criteria of developed country hope so…
Plz think of better india developed india…
U r saying that”undeserving junior can become a boss to a senior general category guy. ”
My friend undeserving and unnecessary thing happened in india since 5000 yrs reservation is just 1St step to stop them..:-)
Always remember before commenting on dis issue or ur problem about this reservation first read why this is happening…don’t be d blank face and don’t be narrow minded..
Can you please explain the genetics reasoning behind defending caste based reservation?
What exactly is being passed on genetically which gives advantage to Open Castes?
Yes ,? it is cast based racism in India.. very bad for our future .. trying migrate us …
And I agree with u ..
something is right in his observations but all is not right.reservations are essential to india.there should be minimum qualifying marks in entry of govt sector, otherwise innovation would be killed ,it is not good for indian devolopment.creamylayer system would help reaching reservations to needy otherwise it reaches to once used people.odapting reservations same formule india will not devolop in next 200 years.once reservation is used he should be treated as open cast ,then only reservation concept reaches to poor and supresed castes. then india should devolop and caste system would be removed
This article provides interesting observations. You should write a letter with content of this article to Andhra Pradesh chief minister, governor and the president of India. I’m sure this is a serious matter to think about in next 1 or 2 years. If they don’t remove reservations which you described, they will always remove poor.
Fact author has mentioned is totally false about, “If a person from reserved category score well then he comes under general category or merit category.”
Its totally reversed, if seat are not fulfilled then General Category candidate are considered on reserved seat.
OBC’s who do not fall in creamy layer and apply for posts in general category.
There are state minorities and central minorities.
A person belong to state minority does not necessary will be a central minority they all compete in General Category and never had any complain as they know an even had proofed themselves in Central level.
Below you can get the actual scenario of vacancies.
Number of vacancies official released by govt.
The data provided by these ministries shows out of 92,589 backlog reserved vacancies — 29,198 for SCs, 22,829 for STs and 40,562 for OBCs, 63,876 were filled up during the period from April 1, 2012, to December 31, 2016.
He said 28,713 backlog reserved vacancies — 8,223 for SCs, 6,955 for STs and 13,535 for OBCs — remained “unfilled” as on January 1, 2017.
Around 2.7% of all jobs in the Country are Government jobs. Rest 97.3% un-organized and private sector.
Nobody talks about private sector which comprises of 97%
Current Proposed
Others Women
Sehedule Classes(A, B, C, D) 15% 10 5
Schedule Tribes 6% 4 2
Backward Classes (A, B, C, D) 25% 16.665 8.335
Physically Handicapped (Blind, Deaf & Dumb and OPH) 3% 2 1
Ex-Service Men (APMS only) 1% 0.665 0.335
Women 33.33% 0 0
General (Open to all including SC/ST and OBC) 16.67% 33.335 16.665
Total 66.665 33.335 100
There is nothing u can t get if u work hard.
the writer seems to be confused.
“”Dont even dream to get a medical seat/gov job if you are in general category.”””.. The writer must be crazy.
This article is completely biased,
First of all, the decision to return to India does not depend only on the reservation , there are multiple other factors involved , including personal will,
1. Reservation in AP would never end up to 83.3%, Women reservation itself is included in other reservations.
2.Right to Education doesn’t deprive the other category candidates. Normally these much people from backward cast study in all schools, its legalized with RTE , thats all.
gud
it is not good to use revervation in education.All other counteries are not follow the reservations.I think this is not good.
Hi,
Women reservation is 33% in all categories… so in Open category its 33% of 50% . ie.., 33.5% seats in open. That dosent mean its good. Apart from 3% to Physically hadicap… other things are crap.
That’s the reason so many students from andhra go to US. hopeless system in India.
right answer
I don t know where the author has done his research. But his Figure of 16 % for open categories in AP being the worst in India; is objectionable. When I was getting into Engg. in Maharashtra (where I belong) my calculation on my actual situation being a Genral Category Boy showed me that i just had 7% seats to compete for. In this case it was worst from what Andhra is, however when I made friends from other parts of India I found that guys coming from the states of Bihar and Jharkand just had 3-4%. How can AP be worst? Its wrong to judge if its from a personal experience.
However true this maybe and I also very much agree that merit has lost value and reservation is killing. There is no shortage of success stories in India where people have built successful careers being educated throughout in India and living their all there lives. It will just take some extra courage for an NRI to go out there work hard fight and make a successful career. That would be more inspiring for his/her generations to come.
Do lookup in Wikipedia “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India#Reservations_in_Andhra_Pradesh”
Author has mentioned rightly.. U may not be knowing the fact..
In last para about schools, the schools are supposed to give 25% seats not just to sc/st but also oc candidates whose salry is less than 60k/year. They are supposed to do so as they get land from Govt at dirt cheap rates. There are also many relaxation to schools in terms of taxes. These days education is just merely a business for profit, which many schools exploit as there is no guarantee required to provide for success.
The author tries to fool others because he was fooled by someone.
Reservation system in India is required, and we cannot go out of it until every cast becomes equal in terms of rights, education, and finance. We are several decades away from there.
The percentage allocated to each caste is based on their population. It is not a random number. If general category gets only 30%, because they are only 30% overall.
Going back to NRI is no way related to reservation system. Vivek should have understood that he has come to US after he got educated with this reservation system. The article is totally irrelevant.
I don’t know about author but you are trying to make fool other people.
Every one knows about it.. This reservation system is one of the biggest reason for current situation of country. What we have achieved even after following it since last 60 year.. Poor people, poor country, poor management, poor decision. A week people need better nourishment not reservation.
@Kaushal… I am surprised to read your opinion about India’s progress. So you think that in last 60 years it is reservation which caused India to achieve wherever it is now. Well in that case I would say we should have more reservation because India is far better off than 60 years back (Although I never believed in reservation).
Idea of reservation is absolutely fine but implementation is worse. Truth remains that if you go back around 100 years.. Many people have exploited lower cast people or I would say whoever was poor. Now this idea is to get everyone fundamental rights that’s all.
Somehow few people do not want everyone equal because Indian always have that VIP culture in their mind. They want someone to clean their shoes and their toilets and someone who they can exploit. This reservation makes sure ( To some extent) that this right of living happily cannot be taken away by few stupid rich people.
As I said Implementation of Idea is really bad and it is not working at the moment or working really slow.
My SC/ST friends ride Pulsar 220s, live in bunglows, are rich from birth and get seat in top colleges without studying. Thats reservation.
help economically backward guy to study for free, but let the person get seat in college or job based on his merit. The present system is crap. and thats the reason Inida is where it is now. Dirty politics, dirty caste system.
@Ben Reservations are needed in India. Yes, you are correct.
But, reservation should be on the basis of economic condition of the person rather than his caste.
Caste based reservations serve only one purpose and it is of vote bank politics.
The present system is foolish because it assumes that the Open category candidate is economically strong and can never be poor whereas people belonging to SC/ST/OBCs are the only ones who are economically weak and need help.
Now, the government has taken it a step further and started giving benefits on the basis of religion. Wow! Where are we heading?!!
Everyone knows reservations need to be given on the basis of economic condition. What’s the harm! A Dalit (if he/she is poor) will get the benefit and a Brahmin (if he/she is poor) will get the benefit.
But this will never happen. Reason: Vote-bank politics.
good answer
Your argument is bullshit, general category people are not rich sons of ambani that they they have to work 3-4times harder to do the same thing which someone can do showing their caste even people who don’t want to talk caste have money problems, there is NO EQUALITY IN DIVIDING ABILITIES ON CASTE THAN HARD WORK & It is only destroying the education system because everyone does not have to work as hard to achieve success, there are millions of castes in this country, b%$$ c%% tiyo sabkko reservation de ke desh ka achar banana hai?
This is a very sad article and so true. Percentage cut-off for a course in BA (English) at colleges in Delhi University was 100% this year. Bright students must leave India, there are so many excellent Universities in the USA to choose from.
Sandeep Shankar, Ph.D. Academic Advisor (India) to The Executive Director, Colorado Heights University, Denver, CO 80223, USA. www.chu.edu; sshankar@chu.edu
While the article is abt reservations, you seem to be on a diff trajectory regarding cut-offs. on that note, AP students are at the wrong end of the stick this time, cuz the JEE cut-offs vary state to state – >90% in XII for AP student doesnt get a seat while ~50% in Bihar board seems to b enough… gross injustice in the name of stupid normalization and percentile. If AP students are inherently brighter than counterparts in other states, it is not their fault!
Sorry intention wasn’t to stoke a fight between AP Vs Rest of India
In my opinion, Indian government is not doing its job competently. In 60 years they could have easily managed to create quality educational institutes, schools, colleges, universities, and made education available to everybody. It can be made free to economic backward students. But why deny opportunity to open category by limiting the seats available to them. I am not at all against reservation, for same reason, why deny opportunity to education for backward castes. But same logic applies to open category. Why deny them? India has enough resources. Not being able to build quality educational institutes over 60 years, thus denying opportunity of education to all, reflects poorly on government, and shows their lack of vision, planning and execution skills. Look at canada. Quality education free for all up to 12th standard. Beyond that, admissions are in merit, and scholarships and loans are available. Nobody is denied opportunity to get educated.
Are there any statistics on caste of students migrating out of India? I am curious what percent of people under reservations chose to migrate.
I will agree with Ram…
It seems above article is againest reservations in India and AP.
I am not againest reservations in INDIA, but the way of implementation should change.
Below are my ideas to improve the implementation of reservation system in INDIA.
1. Need to implement creamy layer strictly.
2. If one person opting reservation in getting job level equal and more than group-2 there childrens should not eligible for any kind of reservation. This kind of data should maintain by GOVT.
In present reservation system, reservation benifits are circulating between famlilies who are opted reservation in their previous generation. Because of this reason, reservation benfits are not reaching to layman like formers, daily labour childrens in villages.
congrats brother ,very good observartion
I totally agree with you. I am from general category and so is my husband. We both have friends from SC/ST/OBC categories. One of my friends from ST category got into our University with reservation ans thereafter into TISS using reservation. Her father is in a very high post in railways. Both my father and my FIL are govt servants who never really got to grow career-wise since they are from general category. My husband’s friend, from OBC category didn’t do well in school or college. But his father, a very rich govt servant in a very high position offered to pay for his expenses for as long as it takes so he could clear Civil service. Took him all of 6 years but he finally did it in 2015. Neither my husband’s family nor mine could afford that. On top of that, we had to find work as soon as we graduated so we could support our families. I worked for 5 long years in a company in Middle Eastjust so we could clear all our debt and my family could be comfortable. My husband did the same in India.
If both of the points raised by you were to be implemented, it would be such a blessing not just for the general category people but also for the SC/ST/OBC people who really need help. Not the ones who dance through the process with their parent’s money.
First of correction…
Women 33% of each catagory.
That means
SC women take 5% out 15% reserved for SCs.
ST women take 2% out 6% reserved for STs
BC women take 8.3% out of 25% reserved for BCs.
PH women take 1% out of 3% reserved for PH
General catagory women take 16.6% out of 50% of general catagory .
That means General catagory men have to compete for remaining 33%(not 16% as you suggested).
But you also note that SCs, BCs, STS form more than 70% of population. General catagory men are less than 15% of population. What we need is universal education so that SCs/STs/BCs can able to compete equally. When that happens, reservations or no reservations does not matter. For example SCs for 25% of Indian population. If all of them get educated , 15% reservation is not enough for them. They will be competing in general category too.
I am more concerned about not enough SC,ST, BC, Women are getting educated and substandard candidates are being recruited. If we have enough growth 33% opportunities for about 10% of the population(general category men) is more than enough.
PS: I am male belong to so called forward caste from Andhra Pradesh.
Sooner we bring those 90% of the population to main stream better. We never know how many Steve Jobs are in that 90%. Lets encourage every Indian kid and let whole India grow and world be a better place.
nice reply.
the author should have highlighted and preached to only those people NOT belonging to above categories instead of making motherhood statements.
For people who actually belong to those categories this is actually a great opportunity. Reservations + Scholarships.
Also there is no comparitive analysis of how difficult/easy is to get similar education & the cost in the US?
This seems to be a rant against reservations more than anything else
Completely agree with you. This is just a rant from someone whos from General category to degrade reservation system. Giving statistics right does not mean whatever you infer based on that data is right. Even if it goes by what the author says, it is still applicable for those who have gone to US. Given the same ratio of reservation category also went to US. Otherwise if author assumes or its a fact that mostly General category are in US, Stay there reservation is not going anywhere. Let every category of reservation get to go all over the world like you.