Why NOT to return to India from US – Reservations in Education System, Govt Jobs

In Living as Student in US by Guest Author38 Comments

One of our readers, Vivek, has written a guest article series “Why NOT to return to India “. It is very interesting … Vivek has presented some real data with lot of research and reference links….I believe that this is very controversial discussion….Lets not fight over this, but look at the facts and his perspective.  In this first article, the focus is on reservations in education system and govt. jobs.

 Background:

All the Non-resident Indians (NRIs), please consider below mentioned pitfalls before going back/returning back to India. Don’t get fooled too much by the Indian Growth story. Most of the Return 2 India articles in newspapers are sponsored by real estate companies as NRI’s are their biggest customers.

 

Education System, Government Jobs – India:

In India complete education system and all Govt. jobs (at state level or central level), promotions in Govt. jobs are based on caste based reservations and not on only pure merit. At central Govt level minimum 50% reservations ( it might further go up in the future) are applicable and at state level it varies based on state. But in a state like Andhra Pradesh which has minimum 83.3% reservations (State of Andhra Pradesh has highest reservations in the world & it is also known as the state that killed merit.)

Reservation Schedule of Andhra Pradesh State , INDIA

* Schedule Castes (A, B, C, D) – 15%
* Schedule Tribes – 6%
* Backward Classes (A, B, C, D) – 25%
* Physically Handicapped (Blind, Deaf & Dumb and OPH) – 3%(1+1+1)
* Ex-Service Men 9APMS only) – 1%
* Women – 33.33%

Total : Minimum 83.33%

If you  deduct 83.3% out of 100% remaining 16% is not only for general category candidates or merit category candidates but people from above categories can compete. If a person from reserved category score well then he comes under general category or merit category. Even in reserved categories a person having millions of dollars or who is rich is eligible for reservations. Which in turn takes away the chance of deserving candidates. They don’t exclude creamy lawyer for reservations. Even admissions to Phd or jobs in R&D department is based on reservations, its like killing innovation.

These reservations are applicable in entire education system including PhD and even in Govt. jobs too. The educational seats or Govt. jobs vacant under reserved category are not filled with people from merit category, Govt. leaves them vacant. In India merit is a joke. Merit is discouraged. No scholarships or rather less scholarships are available based on merit. 99.9% scholarships are given by Govt. based on caste. In many states Govt. reimburses 100% of fee of minorities and all reserved categories irrespective of merit. Read:  Government of Andhra Pradesh Funding Elections
A student who secured the First Rank in the 2005 Post Graduate Medical Entrance Examination but was refused specialization of his choice. Read these articles :

There are many hidden pit falls for the people who are from open category when it comes to maximum age ( All the Govt jobs) and number of attempts to appear for an examination.  For instance, in case of Civil Services IPS, IAS a person from Open category can appear for Civils exam only 4 times, whereas OBC can appear7 times, and  SC/ST candidate does not have any restriction on number of times.   Generally prescribed age limit for Civils exam is minimum 21 years and maximum of 30 years as on 1 August of the year of Examination. But for OBC its 33, for SC/ST its 35.  Age relaxations is applicable to most Govt jobs irrespective state it is. For state level Govt jobs sometimes maximum age eligibility goes to up to 40 or above in few states for reserved categories.  Maximum age relaxation also applicable while admitting in to education institutions but depends up on type of institution whether state or central.

Don’t ever dream of getting in to Medicine or Govt job under Open or Merit Category.

Nowadays 25% reservations are applicable in private schools too from LKG to Grade 8.   Under right to education act these private schools must admit 25% of the students freely from SC/ST, OBC categories etc. In turn, these private schools charge the expenditure incurred on that 25% of the students on the parents of other students so automatically the fees of other students goes up. Even scholarships at school level mostly are given only to minority students like Muslims etc. Kids’ admissions for free education is also based on caste system ( check page 9, point 4).

 

The following table reflects the typical caste-based reservation profile:

SC and SC Converts to Buddhism 13.0%
STs 7.0%
Vimukta Jati 3.0%
Nomadic Tribes (NTI) 2.5%
Nomadic Tribes (NT2) 3.5%
Nomadic Tribes (NT3) 2.0%
OBC 19.0%
TOTAL 50.0%

Table Reference: National Council for Indian Education – Reservations

Some articles related to reservations and education in India.

What are your thoughts on education system and reservations?

Living in America and not seeing much of these reservations, what is your view?

 

Other Articles


Comments ( 38 )

  1. Ravinder goel

    Can some friend tell me about what is the reservation system in education and employment in America in other words how does it operate there

  2. Raviprakash

    When you discourage merit and continue to increase caste based reservations in Education and Govt. jobs, India will be left with deficiency in service, immoral activity, corruption, highhandedness, caste war, communal tension, price rise, below par teachers, professors and educational standards, lower self esteem, dependency on Govt. for all evils afflicting the nation, rise in legal cases, low productivity, rowdyism, intolerence, indiscipline, strikes, bundhs, brainless politicians.

  3. B Dutta

    Reservation seems to be a necessary evil but it needs to be tamed. At present the system is immoral and highly discriminatory against general population. Worst aspects are:

    1) Irrespective of merit and economic backwardness scholarships are given to SC/ST, minorities. There is almost no or proportionately very few scholarship for either meritorious or economically backward open category students.

    2) Many states implement reservation in promotions, so a undeserving junior can become a boss to a senior general category guy. This is a very big injustice.

    1. Sm

      Mate, it’s just an evil , not necessary at all , it has destroyed the education system, when people start being judged by background regardless of ability, the system is defunct , the economic backward bullshit argument fails here as well , even people in general category are economically backward many times, this is a result of rampant vote bank politics,

      1. JIGNESH

        Think of a system when one was judged based on his/her background for 5000 year and was disallowed basic human rights let alone economic rights. And it hasn’t stop. Even though there is reservation based on Caste, you can see hundred of cases of Caste based discrimination in many cases in our country.

      2. bhimsandesh tupe

        OK in that case tell me how many % of people of general category r poor????

        I’m not a political supporter
        I’m just a person from backward class..
        Why people r so blind and narrow minded I didn’t get..just find d statistics regarding economy based on caste and u will get ur answer..

        And just go to d past…no prince hv given any exam or test to become king it was d traditional gift to him..this is d condition from 5000 yrs our occupation depends on our caste…shudra does not hv any opportunity..opportunity was only for d higher caste..and in this constitution d good change people get opportunity to do all d things regardless of their Cast..
        And I think that is somewhere making u pin prick..friend live in reality don’t be so narrow minded check d statistics and then comment…

    2. bhimsandesh tupe

      PLEASE READ THIS
      Then I just want to ask question how many % of SC and ST people are billionaire..compare to the general category..u find that not even 5% of SC ST people are that much rich
      Friend reservation system in india running from 5000 yrs but there is just a little bit change(a good change) now which was/is necessary for india to become a developed country..former reservation is also based on caste my friend not on d ability..d occupation is a traditional gift to d sons and daughters..no king had become king on d ability..it was d gift to them..leave it..I will talk about backward people..if u r (shudra) or (achut) u did not get any opportunity in ur life to make it developed…u just imagine u did not get even food u hv to eat dead animals…and this is for 5000 yrs..there is lot to tell but leave it just imagine what will be ur next generation if suffer all these things..imagine what will be ur mentality if u go through these madness..u never thought of becoming rich person develop person bcoz u don’t Hv that right..even u don’t know when ur wife mother or daughter can face a nightmare(RAPE) by other cast people’s..and u can’t do anything to protect them..and what u will teach ur next generation??? Just think man this goes for 5000 yrs approximately 50 generation..50generation my friend..have u heard about genetics??if not I will strongly recomed u to read about it..we eat food 2 times a day right…supposed u r a professional fighter and if someone kept u starv for 30 days and after 30 days keep a food of 30 days in front of u at a time and tell now ur starving is end and eat d all food…and go to fighting club and fight there with ur opponent who r taking proper diet for all d day what will happen u will never win…for that u Hv to eat food not for 2-3 days u hv to eat a proper diet for at least 6 months to become eligible to fight with ur opponent…just like that we hv reservation for 70 yr and it’s not possible to compensate 5000 yrs with this 70 yrs it will take time and we r not demanding 5000 yrs but it will take time for becoming economically equal and this is d proper constitution for india..ya there r some people in SC and ST caste who r developed but there number is tooooo small my friend on d basis of there success u can’t say the reservation system is wrong..and tell just one name of PM who is SC or ST..that reveals d truth man there r still the traditional propogonda is going..shey still some peoples who doesn’t Hv houses…who r still becoming victim of d upper castims d fact is that media don’t flash it because media is also there’s..if ur thinking I’m telling a lie..I also hv proof..make u thinking right man don’t be narrow minded..I think u know about d criteria of developed country hope so…
      Plz think of better india developed india…

      U r saying that”undeserving junior can become a boss to a senior general category guy. ”
      My friend undeserving and unnecessary thing happened in india since 5000 yrs reservation is just 1St step to stop them..:-)

      Always remember before commenting on dis issue or ur problem about this reservation first read why this is happening…don’t be d blank face and don’t be narrow minded..

      1. kaarthikraaj

        Can you please explain the genetics reasoning behind defending caste based reservation?
        What exactly is being passed on genetically which gives advantage to Open Castes?

  4. knr

    something is right in his observations but all is not right.reservations are essential to india.there should be minimum qualifying marks in entry of govt sector, otherwise innovation would be killed ,it is not good for indian devolopment.creamylayer system would help reaching reservations to needy otherwise it reaches to once used people.odapting reservations same formule india will not devolop in next 200 years.once reservation is used he should be treated as open cast ,then only reservation concept reaches to poor and supresed castes. then india should devolop and caste system would be removed

  5. Amit

    This article provides interesting observations. You should write a letter with content of this article to Andhra Pradesh chief minister, governor and the president of India. I’m sure this is a serious matter to think about in next 1 or 2 years. If they don’t remove reservations which you described, they will always remove poor.

  6. Srikanth

    Current Proposed
    Others Women
    Sehedule Classes(A, B, C, D) 15% 10 5
    Schedule Tribes 6% 4 2
    Backward Classes (A, B, C, D) 25% 16.665 8.335
    Physically Handicapped (Blind, Deaf & Dumb and OPH)  3% 2 1
    Ex-Service Men (APMS only) 1% 0.665 0.335
    Women 33.33% 0 0
    General (Open to all including SC/ST and OBC) 16.67% 33.335 16.665

    Total 66.665 33.335 100

  7. Vishnu

    There is nothing u can t get if u work hard.

    the writer seems to be confused.

    “”Dont even dream to get a medical seat/gov job if you are in general category.”””.. The writer must be crazy.

  8. Raj

    This article is completely biased,

    First of all, the decision to return to India does not depend only on the reservation , there are multiple other factors involved , including personal will,

    1. Reservation in AP would never end up to 83.3%, Women reservation itself is included in other reservations.
    2.Right to Education doesn’t deprive the other category candidates. Normally these much people from backward cast study in all schools, its legalized with RTE , thats all.

  9. Shoaib

    Hi,
    Women reservation is 33% in all categories… so in Open category its 33% of 50% . ie.., 33.5% seats in open. That dosent mean its good. Apart from 3% to Physically hadicap… other things are crap.
    That’s the reason so many students from andhra go to US. hopeless system in India.

  10. Sherry

    I don t know where the author has done his research. But his Figure of 16 % for open categories in AP being the worst in India; is objectionable. When I was getting into Engg. in Maharashtra (where I belong) my calculation on my actual situation being a Genral Category Boy showed me that i just had 7% seats to compete for. In this case it was worst from what Andhra is, however when I made friends from other parts of India I found that guys coming from the states of Bihar and Jharkand just had 3-4%. How can AP be worst? Its wrong to judge if its from a personal experience.
    However true this maybe and I also very much agree that merit has lost value and reservation is killing. There is no shortage of success stories in India where people have built successful careers being educated throughout in India and living their all there lives. It will just take some extra courage for an NRI to go out there work hard fight and make a successful career. That would be more inspiring for his/her generations to come.

    1. Gulam

      Do lookup in Wikipedia “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India#Reservations_in_Andhra_Pradesh”

      Author has mentioned rightly.. U may not be knowing the fact..

  11. yOGESH

    In last para about schools, the schools are supposed to give 25% seats not just to sc/st but also oc candidates whose salry is less than 60k/year. They are supposed to do so as they get land from Govt at dirt cheap rates. There are also many relaxation to schools in terms of taxes. These days education is just merely a business for profit, which many schools exploit as there is no guarantee required to provide for success.

  12. Ben

    The author tries to fool others because he was fooled by someone.

    Reservation system in India is required, and we cannot go out of it until every cast becomes equal in terms of rights, education, and finance. We are several decades away from there.

    The percentage allocated to each caste is based on their population. It is not a random number. If general category gets only 30%, because they are only 30% overall.

    Going back to NRI is no way related to reservation system. Vivek should have understood that he has come to US after he got educated with this reservation system. The article is totally irrelevant.

    1. kaushal jadon

      I don’t know about author but you are trying to make fool other people.
      Every one knows about it.. This reservation system is one of the biggest reason for current situation of country. What we have achieved even after following it since last 60 year.. Poor people, poor country, poor management, poor decision. A week people need better nourishment not reservation.

      1. HP

        @Kaushal… I am surprised to read your opinion about India’s progress. So you think that in last 60 years it is reservation which caused India to achieve wherever it is now. Well in that case I would say we should have more reservation because India is far better off than 60 years back (Although I never believed in reservation).

        Idea of reservation is absolutely fine but implementation is worse. Truth remains that if you go back around 100 years.. Many people have exploited lower cast people or I would say whoever was poor. Now this idea is to get everyone fundamental rights that’s all.

        Somehow few people do not want everyone equal because Indian always have that VIP culture in their mind. They want someone to clean their shoes and their toilets and someone who they can exploit. This reservation makes sure ( To some extent) that this right of living happily cannot be taken away by few stupid rich people.

        As I said Implementation of Idea is really bad and it is not working at the moment or working really slow.

        1. Shoaib

          My SC/ST friends ride Pulsar 220s, live in bunglows, are rich from birth and get seat in top colleges without studying. Thats reservation.
          help economically backward guy to study for free, but let the person get seat in college or job based on his merit. The present system is crap. and thats the reason Inida is where it is now. Dirty politics, dirty caste system.

    2. Rashmi Gupta

      @Ben Reservations are needed in India. Yes, you are correct.

      But, reservation should be on the basis of economic condition of the person rather than his caste.

      Caste based reservations serve only one purpose and it is of vote bank politics.

      The present system is foolish because it assumes that the Open category candidate is economically strong and can never be poor whereas people belonging to SC/ST/OBCs are the only ones who are economically weak and need help.

      Now, the government has taken it a step further and started giving benefits on the basis of religion. Wow! Where are we heading?!!

      Everyone knows reservations need to be given on the basis of economic condition. What’s the harm! A Dalit (if he/she is poor) will get the benefit and a Brahmin (if he/she is poor) will get the benefit.

      But this will never happen. Reason: Vote-bank politics.

    3. Sm

      Your argument is bullshit, general category people are not rich sons of ambani that they they have to work 3-4times harder to do the same thing which someone can do showing their caste even people who don’t want to talk caste have money problems, there is NO EQUALITY IN DIVIDING ABILITIES ON CASTE THAN HARD WORK & It is only destroying the education system because everyone does not have to work as hard to achieve success, there are millions of castes in this country, b%$$ c%% tiyo sabkko reservation de ke desh ka achar banana hai?

  13. sandeep shankar

    This is a very sad article and so true. Percentage cut-off for a course in BA (English) at colleges in Delhi University was 100% this year. Bright students must leave India, there are so many excellent Universities in the USA to choose from.

    Sandeep Shankar, Ph.D. Academic Advisor (India) to The Executive Director, Colorado Heights University, Denver, CO 80223, USA. www.chu.edu; [email protected]

    1. what r u missing

      While the article is abt reservations, you seem to be on a diff trajectory regarding cut-offs. on that note, AP students are at the wrong end of the stick this time, cuz the JEE cut-offs vary state to state – >90% in XII for AP student doesnt get a seat while ~50% in Bihar board seems to b enough… gross injustice in the name of stupid normalization and percentile. If AP students are inherently brighter than counterparts in other states, it is not their fault!

      Sorry intention wasn’t to stoke a fight between AP Vs Rest of India

    2. Amit

      In my opinion, Indian government is not doing its job competently. In 60 years they could have easily managed to create quality educational institutes, schools, colleges, universities, and made education available to everybody. It can be made free to economic backward students. But why deny opportunity to open category by limiting the seats available to them. I am not at all against reservation, for same reason, why deny opportunity to education for backward castes. But same logic applies to open category. Why deny them? India has enough resources. Not being able to build quality educational institutes over 60 years, thus denying opportunity of education to all, reflects poorly on government, and shows their lack of vision, planning and execution skills. Look at canada. Quality education free for all up to 12th standard. Beyond that, admissions are in merit, and scholarships and loans are available. Nobody is denied opportunity to get educated.

  14. Pingback: about reservations… | nithinrocks

  15. Kishore

    I will agree with Ram…

    It seems above article is againest reservations in India and AP.

    I am not againest reservations in INDIA, but the way of implementation should change.

    Below are my ideas to improve the implementation of reservation system in INDIA.
    1. Need to implement creamy layer strictly.
    2. If one person opting reservation in getting job level equal and more than group-2 there childrens should not eligible for any kind of reservation. This kind of data should maintain by GOVT.

    In present reservation system, reservation benifits are circulating between famlilies who are opted reservation in their previous generation. Because of this reason, reservation benfits are not reaching to layman like formers, daily labour childrens in villages.

    1. Sh

      I totally agree with you. I am from general category and so is my husband. We both have friends from SC/ST/OBC categories. One of my friends from ST category got into our University with reservation ans thereafter into TISS using reservation. Her father is in a very high post in railways. Both my father and my FIL are govt servants who never really got to grow career-wise since they are from general category. My husband’s friend, from OBC category didn’t do well in school or college. But his father, a very rich govt servant in a very high position offered to pay for his expenses for as long as it takes so he could clear Civil service. Took him all of 6 years but he finally did it in 2015. Neither my husband’s family nor mine could afford that. On top of that, we had to find work as soon as we graduated so we could support our families. I worked for 5 long years in a company in Middle Eastjust so we could clear all our debt and my family could be comfortable. My husband did the same in India.
      If both of the points raised by you were to be implemented, it would be such a blessing not just for the general category people but also for the SC/ST/OBC people who really need help. Not the ones who dance through the process with their parent’s money.

  16. Ram

    First of correction…

    Women 33% of each catagory.

    That means
    SC women take 5% out 15% reserved for SCs.
    ST women take 2% out 6% reserved for STs
    BC women take 8.3% out of 25% reserved for BCs.
    PH women take 1% out of 3% reserved for PH
    General catagory women take 16.6% out of 50% of general catagory .
    That means General catagory men have to compete for remaining 33%(not 16% as you suggested).

    But you also note that SCs, BCs, STS form more than 70% of population. General catagory men are less than 15% of population. What we need is universal education so that SCs/STs/BCs can able to compete equally. When that happens, reservations or no reservations does not matter. For example SCs for 25% of Indian population. If all of them get educated , 15% reservation is not enough for them. They will be competing in general category too.

    I am more concerned about not enough SC,ST, BC, Women are getting educated and substandard candidates are being recruited. If we have enough growth 33% opportunities for about 10% of the population(general category men) is more than enough.

    PS: I am male belong to so called forward caste from Andhra Pradesh.

    1. Ram

      Sooner we bring those 90% of the population to main stream better. We never know how many Steve Jobs are in that 90%. Lets encourage every Indian kid and let whole India grow and world be a better place.

  17. Dude

    the author should have highlighted and preached to only those people NOT belonging to above categories instead of making motherhood statements.

    For people who actually belong to those categories this is actually a great opportunity. Reservations + Scholarships.

    Also there is no comparitive analysis of how difficult/easy is to get similar education & the cost in the US?

    This seems to be a rant against reservations more than anything else

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